Can't Move a Selection

[PapaBear1]

I've been at this for a while now, and even with Google searches etc., I simply cannot move a selection.

I thought I had done this dozens of times before, so I'm kind of sitting here wondering - why can I suddenly not move a selection?

I already know about the "Move Layer" vs. "Move Selection" mode aspect - and I have it in "Move Selection" mode.
And it does allow me to move the selection - but not really.  It only moves the outline and never lets me move the content.  It also never creates any Floating temp layer either.

This CANNOT be this hard.  Moving stuff around is fundamental to image processing - so I MUST be missing something obvious.
Can the user really not simply select something and move it?

I have seen advice for copying and/or cutting and pasting to a new layer - but I don't want a new layer - I want to move my selection within the layer I'm working on.  What if a layer had 2-dozen items and you wanted to shift them around.  This approach would require 2-dozen layers?  That makes no sense.

I'm stumped.

thanks for any help!

[programmer_ceds]

(04-01-2022, 03:20 PM)PapaBear1 Wrote: I've been at this for a while now, and even with Google searches etc., I simply cannot move a selection.

I thought I had done this dozens of times before, so I'm kind of sitting here wondering - why can I suddenly not move a selection?

I already know about the "Move Layer" vs. "Move Selection" mode aspect - and I have it in "Move Selection" mode.
And it does allow me to move the selection - but not really.  It only moves the outline and never lets me move the content.  It also never creates any Floating temp layer either.

This CANNOT be this hard.  Moving stuff around is fundamental to image processing - so I MUST be missing something obvious.
Can the user really not simply select something and move it?

I have seen advice for copying and/or cutting and pasting to a new layer - but I don't want a new layer - I want to move my selection within the layer I'm working on.  What if a layer had 2-dozen items and you wanted to shift them around.  This approach would require 2-dozen layers?  That makes no sense.

I'm stumped.

thanks for any help!
e

Putting the move tool into selection mode moves the selection boundary - not the selected data. Cut or copy the selection data (depending on whether you want to move or copy it), paste it, move it where you want it and then anchor the floating layer (right-click "Layer/Anchor Layer") - no increase in the number of layers.

Note that you don't use the Move tool for this - after you paste the cut or copied selection the cursor changes to the move icon so that you can move the new floating layer where you want it.

[PapaBear1]

(04-01-2022, 03:40 PM)programmer_ceds Wrote:

(04-01-2022, 03:20 PM)PapaBear1 Wrote: I've been at this for a while now, and even with Google searches etc., I simply cannot move a selection.

I thought I had done this dozens of times before, so I'm kind of sitting here wondering - why can I suddenly not move a selection?

I already know about the "Move Layer" vs. "Move Selection" mode aspect - and I have it in "Move Selection" mode.
And it does allow me to move the selection - but not really.  It only moves the outline and never lets me move the content.  It also never creates any Floating temp layer either.

This CANNOT be this hard.  Moving stuff around is fundamental to image processing - so I MUST be missing something obvious.
Can the user really not simply select something and move it?

I have seen advice for copying and/or cutting and pasting to a new layer - but I don't want a new layer - I want to move my selection within the layer I'm working on.  What if a layer had 2-dozen items and you wanted to shift them around.  This approach would require 2-dozen layers?  That makes no sense.

I'm stumped.

thanks for any help!
e

Putting the move tool into selection mode moves the selection boundary - not the selected data. Cut or copy the selection data (depending on whether you want to move or copy it), paste it, move it where you want it and then anchor the floating layer (right-click "Layer/Anchor Layer") - no increase in the number of layers.

Note that you don't use the Move tool for this - after you paste the cut or copied selection the cursor changes to the move icon so that you can move the new floating layer where you want it.

Wow -
OK -
Wasn't expecting all that.
Seems like some gymnastics to go through - just to move a selection.  Clearly - the intent is to move something when I go to use that tool.  If I wanted to copy and paste something I would. When I use that tool - it is understood that I want to move something.  Seems like it should automatically do what it takes to get that move done - without me having to Cut/Paste.
Oh well - at least I know how to do this now.  It's just not intuitive.  (That list is growing... ha...  )

btw - I'm curious: What would be the purpose of the default behavior of moving "the selection" and not the content. It doesn't "do" anything that I can tell - so I just don't understand the purpose of it.

thanks very much!

[programmer_ceds]

(04-01-2022, 03:58 PM)PapaBear1 Wrote:

(04-01-2022, 03:40 PM)programmer_ceds Wrote: Putting the move tool into selection mode moves the selection boundary - not the selected data. Cut or copy the selection data (depending on whether you want to move or copy it), paste it, move it where you want it and then anchor the floating layer (right-click "Layer/Anchor Layer") - no increase in the number of layers.

Note that you don't use the Move tool for this - after you paste the cut or copied selection the cursor changes to the move icon so that you can move the new floating layer where you want it.

Wow -
OK -
Wasn't expecting all that.
Seems like some gymnastics to go through - just to move a selection.  Clearly - the intent is to move something when I go to use that tool.  If I wanted to copy and paste something I would. When I use that tool - it is understood that I want to move something.  Seems like it should automatically do what it takes to get that move done - without me having to Cut/Paste.
Oh well - at least I know how to do this now.  It's just not intuitive.  (That list is growing... ha...  )

btw - I'm curious: What would be the purpose of the default behavior of moving "the selection" and not the content. It doesn't "do" anything that I can tell - so I just don't understand the purpose of it.

thanks very much!

But if the Move tool worked the way you said there would be no way to move the all selection boundaries if you had more than one - if you are in "add to the current selection" mode you can move the selection boundary that you are currently defining but this doesn't move any previously defined selection areas (would be unworkable if it did!). Copy/paste/move/anchor = ctrl-C, ctrl-V, drag/move the pasted selection/ctrl-h - not that complex when you get used to it(?)

[PapaBear1]

(04-01-2022, 04:09 PM)programmer_ceds Wrote:

(04-01-2022, 03:58 PM)PapaBear1 Wrote:

(04-01-2022, 03:40 PM)programmer_ceds Wrote: Putting the move tool into selection mode moves the selection boundary - not the selected data. Cut or copy the selection data (depending on whether you want to move or copy it), paste it, move it where you want it and then anchor the floating layer (right-click "Layer/Anchor Layer") - no increase in the number of layers.

Note that you don't use the Move tool for this - after you paste the cut or copied selection the cursor changes to the move icon so that you can move the new floating layer where you want it.

Wow -
OK -
Wasn't expecting all that.
Seems like some gymnastics to go through - just to move a selection.  Clearly - the intent is to move something when I go to use that tool.  If I wanted to copy and paste something I would. When I use that tool - it is understood that I want to move something.  Seems like it should automatically do what it takes to get that move done - without me having to Cut/Paste.
Oh well - at least I know how to do this now.  It's just not intuitive.  (That list is growing... ha...  )

btw - I'm curious:  What would be the purpose of the default behavior of moving "the selection" and not the content.  It doesn't "do" anything that I can tell - so I just don't understand the purpose of it.

thanks very much!

But if the Move tool worked the way you said there would be no way to move the all selection boundaries if you had more than one - if you are in "add to the current selection" mode you can move the selection boundary that you are currently defining but this doesn't move any previously defined selection areas (would be unworkable if it did!). Copy/paste/move/anchor = ctrl-C, ctrl-V, drag/move the pasted selection/ctrl-h - not that complex when you get used to it(?)

Hmmmmm --- I don't follow that at all.  But that's on me.  You must be describing some more complicated process that I've just never encountered.  Even if it allowed you to move one 'selection' without moving the content (while others are selected - somehow) - then what?  This would imply that I could still somehow plant the content in the new location after moving it - but that doesn't sound like that is the case. I'm still wondering what this other process is if it is not ending up with stuff being moved.  It sounds like we must use this Copy/Paste process every time to actually move something.  Is Copy/Paste etc. complicated? No, but it is not intuitive with what a normal user would expect to happen when they select something and then try to move it with a "move selection" tool.  Calculus is easy once you learn it too.  Ha...  

[PixLab]

(04-01-2022, 07:08 PM)PapaBear1 Wrote: Hmmmmm --- I don't follow that at all.  But that's on me.  You must be describing some more complicated process that I've just never encountered.  Even if it allowed you to move one 'selection' without moving the content (while others are selected - somehow) - then what?  This would imply that I could still somehow plant the content in the new location after moving it - but that doesn't sound like that is the case. I'm still wondering what this other process is if it is not ending up with stuff being moved.  It sounds like we must use this Copy/Paste process every time to actually move something.  Is Copy/Paste etc. complicated? No, but it is not intuitive with what a normal user would expect to happen when they select something and then try to move it with a "move selection" tool.  Calculus is easy once you learn it too.  Ha...  

Don't assume that every one is working your way. I don't, at all...
Having said that GIMP has a tool/preset for the selection behaving the way you would like

Make your selection with any selection tool,
Then go to Select ➤ Float or you can use the shortcut Shift+ Ctrl + L and JUST move the selected pixels where you want (You do NOT need to select the move tool)!
once it's done, click the Anchor button at the bottom of the layer stack/dialog

25 seconds video ➤ https://imgur.com/a/FYgeMxC

[programmer_ceds]

(04-01-2022, 07:08 PM)PapaBear1 Wrote: Hmmmmm --- I don't follow that at all.  But that's on me.  You must be describing some more complicated process that I've just never encountered.  Even if it allowed you to move one 'selection' without moving the content (while others are selected - somehow) - then what?  This would imply that I could still somehow plant the content in the new location after moving it - but that doesn't sound like that is the case. I'm still wondering what this other process is if it is not ending up with stuff being moved.  It sounds like we must use this Copy/Paste process every time to actually move something.  Is Copy/Paste etc. complicated? No, but it is not intuitive with what a normal user would expect to happen when they select something and then try to move it with a "move selection" tool.  Calculus is easy once you learn it too.  Ha...  

Apart from not requiring the anchor step is the process not dissimilar to using a word processor or text editor? With these programs you would select the text that you want to copy or move, cut or copy, move the cursor to where you want the text to appear and then paste. The difference with GIMP is that the order becomes cut/copy, paste then move (followed, optionally, by anchor).

Again, although it doesn't require the anchor step moving items in LibreOffice Draw is the same as in GIMP - copy, paste then move.

(Using the Move tool to move the selection is akin to being able to move the selection highlight in a word processing program without moving the highlighted characters. But for what you are trying to do don't use the Move tool.)

[Ofnuts]

(04-01-2022, 03:58 PM)PapaBear1 Wrote:

(04-01-2022, 03:40 PM)programmer_ceds Wrote:

(04-01-2022, 03:20 PM)PapaBear1 Wrote: I've been at this for a while now, and even with Google searches etc., I simply cannot move a selection.

I thought I had done this dozens of times before, so I'm kind of sitting here wondering - why can I suddenly not move a selection?

I already know about the "Move Layer" vs. "Move Selection" mode aspect - and I have it in "Move Selection" mode.
And it does allow me to move the selection - but not really.  It only moves the outline and never lets me move the content.  It also never creates any Floating temp layer either.

This CANNOT be this hard.  Moving stuff around is fundamental to image processing - so I MUST be missing something obvious.
Can the user really not simply select something and move it?

I have seen advice for copying and/or cutting and pasting to a new layer - but I don't want a new layer - I want to move my selection within the layer I'm working on.  What if a layer had 2-dozen items and you wanted to shift them around.  This approach would require 2-dozen layers?  That makes no sense.

I'm stumped.

thanks for any help!
e

Putting the move tool into selection mode moves the selection boundary - not the selected data. Cut or copy the selection data (depending on whether you want to move or copy it), paste it, move it where you want it and then anchor the floating layer (right-click "Layer/Anchor Layer") - no increase in the number of layers.

Note that you don't use the Move tool for this - after you paste the cut or copied selection the cursor changes to the move icon so that you can move the new floating layer where you want it.

Wow -
OK -
Wasn't expecting all that.
Seems like some gymnastics to go through - just to move a selection.  Clearly - the intent is to move something when I go to use that tool.  If I wanted to copy and paste something I would. When I use that tool - it is understood that I want to move something.  Seems like it should automatically do what it takes to get that move done - without me having to Cut/Paste.
Oh well - at least I know how to do this now.  It's just not intuitive.  (That list is growing... ha...  )

btw - I'm curious:  What would be the purpose of the default behavior of moving "the selection" and not the content.  It doesn't "do" anything that I can tell - so I just don't understand the purpose of it.

thanks very much!

In some tools you can move the selected pixels right away. For instance in the Free Select, right after you have done the selection you can Ctrl-Alt-drag (Cut) or Shift-Alt-drag (copy) to move the selected pixels.

[PixLab]

(04-03-2022, 08:19 PM)Ofnuts Wrote: In some tools you can move the selected pixels right away. For instance in the Free Select, right after you have done the selection you can Ctrl-Alt-drag (Cut) or Shift-Alt-drag (copy) to move the selected pixels.

Interesting, on my distro Ctrl-Alt-drag works for all select tools except the scissors,
The Shift+Alt-drag shows the move pointer, but does not work, instead, Shift+Super+Alt+drag does work well
Thanks for the tips

[PapaBear1]

(04-04-2022, 02:21 AM)PixLab Wrote:

(04-03-2022, 08:19 PM)Ofnuts Wrote: In some tools you can move the selected pixels right away. For instance in the Free Select, right after you have done the selection you can Ctrl-Alt-drag (Cut) or Shift-Alt-drag (copy) to move the selected pixels.

Interesting, on my distro Ctrl-Alt-drag works for all select tools except the scissors,
The Shift+Alt-drag shows the move pointer, but does not work, instead, Shift+Super+Alt+drag does work well
Thanks for the tips

OK - I tried this with the Free Select tool, and this secret sauce worked!
Thanks!

So, it is truly just my humble opinion as a NOOB, but IF I place the Move tool into "Move Selection" mode, I would expect it to do what Ctrl-Alt-drag does - which is to move the selection - but it does not. It moves the dotted lines, and then there's nothing I can discern to do after that.  The lines are moved - but then what? Hitting return does nothing, and there's no Floating layer to anchor either. I really am curious what this other process is that is being supported by this "Move Selection" tool.

---

(04-02-2022, 02:55 AM)PixLab Wrote:

(04-01-2022, 07:08 PM)PapaBear1 Wrote: Hmmmmm --- I don't follow that at all.  But that's on me.  You must be describing some more complicated process that I've just never encountered.  Even if it allowed you to move one 'selection' without moving the content (while others are selected - somehow) - then what?  This would imply that I could still somehow plant the content in the new location after moving it - but that doesn't sound like that is the case. I'm still wondering what this other process is if it is not ending up with stuff being moved.  It sounds like we must use this Copy/Paste process every time to actually move something.  Is Copy/Paste etc. complicated? No, but it is not intuitive with what a normal user would expect to happen when they select something and then try to move it with a "move selection" tool.  Calculus is easy once you learn it too.  Ha...  

Don't assume that every one is working your way. I don't, at all...
Having said that GIMP has a tool/preset for the selection behaving the way you would like

Make your selection with any selection tool,
Then go to Select ➤ Float or you can use the shortcut Shift+ Ctrl + L and JUST move the selected pixels where you want (You do NOT need to select the move tool)!
once it's done, click the Anchor button at the bottom of the layer stack/dialog

25 seconds video ➤ https://imgur.com/a/FYgeMxC

OK - I think you solved the mystery for me of what I would need to do NEXT, after making my selection - which is the Select > Float thing.  In many other instances, I think I've noticed that the system automatically creates the float, but not here. I'm sure there's a reason, but again - just not obvious.  So - I had no idea I needed to do that next.  Now I know!

I agree in principle - never assume -- Ha...  Having said that, I don't think I'm in Left Field here --- expecting to be able to make a selection and move it using the 'move selection' tool seems pretty normal.  I certainly don't assume everyone does things the same way - but - just as in the word processing example - if I highlight two words in a word processor, and then click and drag them with the mouse, I expect the words to move - and I don't think it's a reach to say that over 95% of other people would say the same - and I'm expecting this to be the same kind of operation here - with the same 95% of users expecting it.  Select it - then move it.  But I fully understand there are numerous complications and options and clever features, many of which I'm probably unaware.  I still think, however, (again - obviously just another IMHO) that the most obvious and efficient process should be the default behavior - while still supporting all that fancy stuff - but supporting THAT fancy stuff with the secret sauce keystrokes.  

Thanks again to all with the input, details, advice, etc.  I really appreciate this active forum with knowledgeable members!  I now think I know enough to move selections in GIMP!